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Greetings all. (I'm in DHO-6.)

 

I decided to try my hand at starting my own forum stream.

If I don't get flamed too badly, maybe I can present some interesting 'ammo porn' [unclassified data & technical information].

Also, being a 'Dad' & husband, I may not slavishly administer this thread due to real-world commitments (read: my job & family).

 

My military background:

US Army (Cold War: 1977-91) Veteran; 509th ABCT/82d ABN/101st AASLT/4ID

Ranks endured: E1-E6 & WO1-CW2

Duty Stations: Vicenza, Italy; Ft Bragg, NC; Ft Rucker, AL; Ft Carson, CO.

(My 101st time was spent at Guthrie Army Airfield, Ft Rucker, AL, with Delta Company, 229th Attack Helicopter Battalion: from 1982-86. Aircraft flown: AH-1S/ECAS & Modified COBRA. I was not actually posted to Ft Campbell, KY, so I hope that answers any questions.)

 

My current gig: I'm working as a DoD contractor (No-$h!t) with the Mission Command Training Program (MCTP) at Ft Leavenworth, KS.

 

I've been involved with the ongoing training of our US (and allies) warfighters since March 1999.

I have had direct contact with most all of the USAF/US Army computer-based/assisted military training programs/models for this entire period.

Some of those model acronyms are: AWSIM; CBS; JTLS; STAGE; JQUAD-JGG; and the current iteration of WARSIM.

I have been (and remain now) a USAF/US Army certified 'instructor/controller' at the user-level on several of these models.

Incidentally... two of my co-workers (that I know personally) play WoT on XBOX as well. One was an air-defender (duck-hunter), and the other one used to drive Apaches around for a living.

 

I will not go into any details regarding *ANY* of these models due to their security classifications, but suffice it to say that I have extensive modeling & simulation (M&S) experience as a user of these simulations.

 

Current Situation:

Since starting to play around with WoT (thanks Crawdad!) I of course became curious (in a professional context) regarding how the weapons effects were being modeled.

 

I was *VERY* surprised to find that WARGAMING wasn't using physics all that much, even though they were bragging about doing so in the (you name it) update.

 

For example: just how they decided to use weapon bore diameter (caliber) to determine high explosive 'splash' radii vice actually doing the boring research on the projectiles: type & weight of the explosive filler; weight of the projectile's metal casing; composition of that metal (steel... cast iron...?). All resulting in the absolutely abstract radius-of-effect that we all know & love today!

 

All this is kind'a disappointing, since all the weapons effects *SHOULD BE BASED* in physics & chemistry.

 

Both kinetic & chemical (explosive) energy can be expressed in identical, uniform units: Joules.

 

There are equations for both that can be approximated into fairly simple computer code, but it's apparently just easier to pick a random number or build some simple data tables. Real computer code is 'expensive' & costs real (rubles/pounds/dollars/shekels/etc...) & real man-hours. So what if the game isn't terribly close to the real-world, right? It's just an arcade game, right??

 

WARGAMING can (is...?) skate by with software engineers & computer programmers that have minimal-to-no military experience, let alone physics, nor chemistry backgrounds.

 

It's mostly just make believe anyway.

 

Just sayin'...

 

 

Anyway, that's kind'a the direction I'd like to steer this thread.

I will also include open-source & no-$h!t declassified references in my entries to support my observations.

 

 

To end this thread launch, I will share some technical report info regarding the Russian Projectile Designation System I stumbled upon a couple years ago:

 

"The Russian Projectile Designation System consists of a letter-number code that designates the type of projectile and the type of weapon to be used in. It is used on calibers 25mm and above, below 25mm caliber the projectiles are only referred to as e.g. "AP-T" or "HEI" type.

 

Example: BR-271SP

 

The first two letters designate the basic type of projectile, in this example "BR" for "broneboinij" which signifies 'armor-piercing'.

 

The number in the middle designates the weapon family for which this projectile is intended for; in our example the number '271' indicates the 57mm M1943 anti-tank gun and the later related weapons.

 

An optional letter at the end may specify the type of projectile more certain; in our example "SP" means "sploshnoj" [solid] indicating a solid AP projectile.

 

The above code is printed on the projectile; for the code on the cartride case, the letters "U" or "V" are put in front of the projectile code to indicate a 'fixed' round or separate pieces of ammunition. The letter "U" for "unitarnij" [fixed/quick-fire] round/cartridge, and "V" for "vystrel" [separate-loading] ammunition.

 

The complete fixed round for the solid AP projectile is therefore designated "UBR-271SP".

 

Some of my reference documents are bigger than 2MB, so I'll have to work on reducing them appropriately.

An interesting technical report I have is titled "METALLURGICAL EXAMINATION OF SOVIET 45MM, 57MM, AND 85MM

APHE PROJECTILES, FMAM 1121, 1935, AND 2175" dated 6 AUGUST 1952, by the WATERTOWN ARSENAL Laboratory.

(Approved for public release on 28 OCTOBER 2005; DISTRIBUTION IS UNLIMITED)

 

Very interesting stuff.

 

 

 

Like I said at the beginning of my post: ammo porn!

 

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Greetings all. (I'm in DHO-6.)   I decided to try my hand at starting my own forum stream. If I don't get flamed too badly, maybe I can present some interesting 'ammo porn' [unclassified data &

[Whew!]  The 'flame' comment was just my forum-cherry being popped, I suppose...   Yeah, me & Craw go waaayyy back in history. We started out playing RISK & PANZER BLITZ & other AH gam

wtfovr (I know what that means!): "I assume you guys also run the wargaming simulators in Korea for UFL..."   Yup, that's us!  I usually get sent to Camp Casey (oh JOY!!!). Matter of fact, I'm the

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Holy Hardcore! My head hurts with all those numbers, so I'll just say "Holy Hardcore!"

 

Yah, it's been tossed around a little about WoT being an arcade not a sim, but it serves a purpose.

 

Good to meet ya. :)

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post-30660-0-16532900-1454298553_thumb.jpg[Whew!]  The 'flame' comment was just my forum-cherry being popped, I suppose... :mangoo

 

Yeah, me & Craw go waaayyy back in history.

We started out playing RISK & PANZER BLITZ & other AH games back in the 70's.

 

Yeah, we've been living in Leavenworth since early 2008 due to my job situation: I was living/working in Florida... Eglin AFB... from 1999 until we moved here in 2008.

(Of course, I'd prefer being back on the 'Redneck Riviera' (FL panhandle), but what'cha gonna do...!?!?

 

Anyway, thanks for all the positive feed-back guys!

 

Back to the primary topic: weapons effects in WoT.

 

Given my personal research for my current job, I've accumulated a whole bunch of technical reports done by our super-smart military dudes getting their higher degrees in the COMMAND & GENERAL STAFF COLLEGE (CGSC) here at Ft Leavenworth.

 

Since my home system doesn't have access to ADOBE ACROBAT PRO (way expensive), I'll have to reduce the size of the PDFs I want to post here.

 

My primary interest revolves around realistic weapon effects, especially regarding explosives & armor-piercing projectiles.

DID YOU KNOW THAT... most of the APCR projectiles listed in WoT are actually full-caliber/armor-piercing/capped/ballistically capped/high-explosive/with tracer (APCBC-HE-T)...? [i tried to attach two images from my reference library - hope they're here!]

 

ADDITIONALLY... the vanilla Armor-Piercing (AP) ammo WoT lets us use is just a basic solid shot with no armor-piercing cap installed, no ballistic cap installed, no HE bursting charge installed (even though almost every projectile has a cavity for a bursting charge!), and it is assumed that every projectile has a tracer installed (not actually true regarding high explosive shells launched by howitzers/guns (defined as self-propelled artillery capable of indirect fire).  WARGAMING has taken the 'easy way out' and chose to simplify their damage inflicting system instead of actually making it closer to reality/historic capabilities.

 

With regard to high explosive (HE) projectiles: abstractly basing this damage on the diameter of the projectile is just lazy, in my personal opinion.  It's not even close!

 

It would be so very simple to just choose one 'reference projectile' (the actual HE bursting charge weight & 'weight-of-metal') and 'scale' the damage for all other HE projectiles. It's done using something called 'Cube Root Scaling'. Too easy!  (WARGAMING... are you paying attention?)

 

I will shut it down for now, but I hope y'all get my primary field-of-fire.

 

 

Now... how do I add a tag quote at the bottom of this blasted post...???

 

"In the absence of orders, go find something... and kill it!"

 

-Erwin Rommel-

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